EXACTLY

[velessa]

Borrowed from ajslj:

In 1787, the majority of people in this country thought African Americans were worth only three fifths of a human being. In 1887, the majority of people in this country thought Interracial Marriage was an abomination. In 2008, the majority of Californians thought marriage should only be between a man and a woman. Just because the majority of people in this country agree with you doesn't mean that you are right, it just means that a lot of people are wrong.

Comments

[velessa.livejournal.com]

I saw and heard commercials and protests against it, but they were definitely overwhelmed the tidal wave of ads for it. But they didn't stand much of a chance with all the Mormon church money funding the "for" campaign and making it the most expensive one ever.

[randyandrews.livejournal.com]

The Mormon and catholic churches were both involved in that fight and they both had every right to be.

[velessa.livejournal.com]

So what exactly does separation of church and state mean to you? Individuals are allowed to contribute their funds as they see fit, entire religious organizations are prohibited from involvement in legislation. This particular one was a California matter that should have only involved us Californians, not money being poured in from religious groups in other states.

[randyandrews.livejournal.com]

Ummm.. No, there was no law against it, therefore they had every right to be there. The churches themselves did not get involved in the electoral process, they just spent money on ads, and people. This is something political parties do all the time, despite the fact that they are private entities. Private entities have the right to spend money on whatever they choose, as long as they aren't doing anything illegal. You don't like the fact that the Catholic and LDS church's can spend money in your state on ad campaign's, get the laws changed. But while you are at it, make sure that the Republican National Convention and the Democratic National Convention are also banned from spending money there too. After all, these are all private entities.

[velessa.livejournal.com]

Well, I admit I don't like how campaigns are run in this country, period; it seems to boil down to whoever has the most money and can brainwash the most people with their ads wins. Because as you pointed out, most of the population are idiots.

[randyandrews.livejournal.com]

Ahh, something else to agree on.

[mutive.livejournal.com]

Although I do find it interesting that many people blame Obama for it even passing...

Essentially, he mobilized blacks and hispanics to get out and vote, which are two groups that have higher than average numbers of people who were anti-prop 8.

I find it a very interesting juxtaposition, personally. Ah, sleeping with the enemy...

[velessa.livejournal.com]

I know, I find that mind boggling and disgusting...how could minority groups who've been through this crap choose to oppress yet another minority??

[mutive.livejournal.com]

People will often oppose anyone or anything that isn't them. I honestly don't get the big fuss over gay rights on the "take them away" side. Who cares? (I honestly don't.) But people are strange.

[glitterberrys.livejournal.com]

Because they don't feel the parallel applies to them. After all, they didn't choose to be an ethnic minority, nor could they do anything to change it.

...granted, I didn't choose to be gay and don't think I could convert if I wanted to, but plenty of people think it's that easy. Even if they don't think it's technically a choice, you don't have to live...in a gay way? Ugh, I don't know how to express the concept, that, like, you can just be alone and celibate for your lifetime and not Be Gay, whereas short of Michael Jackson-esque surgery, they're stuck with the skin they're in.

At least, that seems to be the most common opinion I've heard voiced.

Doesn't make it any less stupid, though.

[velessa.livejournal.com]

Right, that worked really well for the Catholic priests!

I hate stupid people.

[randyandrews.livejournal.com]

brilliant comment. I hadn't read that side of the argument. Obama is on a slippery slope with this one. It will be interesting to see what he makes of it. (If anything).

[mutive.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I'm quite curious as well. My guess is that he will try to avoid saying anything to avoid upsetting one side. And likely, in the process, upset all. But we will see.

[glitterberrys.livejournal.com]

Considering his early campaigns had a lot of "gay marriage is awesome, I'm all for it," and now he's saying "wait, no, as a Christian I'm against it, but civil unions are just as good, right?", I'm expecting a whole lot of pants-crapping on both sides. Me, I'm just pissed at myself for getting suckered into voting for the guy. Not that I think he's the Worst President Ever, and I still think he's better than the alternative...but had I known then what I know now, I would've written someone in or something.

[mutive.livejournal.com]

Hmmm...yes. I wonder much at Obama. He isn't fortunate, this is for sure. He is trapped in a severe recession that is not his fault (nor, probably, his predecesor's), and therefore unpopular.

I can understand his hesitancy to become engaged in a cultural war. That said, considering that his presidency is likely over if the economy does not recover come 2012 (which seems unlikely), he might as well go down being for something. Might as well throw his weight behind this, seeing as this is where his tendencies seem to lie, anyway. Although, then again, maybe this is why I am not in politics.

[glitterberrys.livejournal.com]

Despite having my own problems with this guy, I gotta say I find it weird that people expected him to make EVERY PROBLEM IN THE WORLD go away overnight.

And my fellow liberals seem to be pissed that he's not doing that, but they don't blink about the gay marriage flip-flop. I don't understand politics at all, or how people relate to politics and politicians.

[mutive.livejournal.com]

I agree completely. I always loved the Evita line "How can one person like me, say,/Alter the time-honored way the game is played?...So what are my chances of honest advances?/I'd say low/Better to win by admitting my sin/Than to lose with a halo...But first tell me who'd be delighted/If I said I'd take on the world's greatest problems/From war to pollution, no hope of solution/Even if I lived for one hundred years"

Unfortunately, Obama really did campaign on the whole "I will take on all the problems!" but then, of course, cannot. And so he is blamed for this, despite that no one could. Oh, the art of the possible...

Can you tell that I love Evita?

[glitterberrys.livejournal.com]

Evita was the one thing Andrew Lloyd Webber did right in his career. You have good taste. (Well, I exaggerate a little. Sunset Boulevard was good. And it's not like I HATE Phantom, I just don't get why everyone loves it so much...) And yes, remarkably clever. I became obsessed with it when I was...I dunno, 14? A couple of years before the movie came out. It's amazing to look back on it and realize how much there is that I couldn't appreciate then.

I do understand that Obama was like "yeah, I'll fix everything EVER," but at the same time...did people really expect it to happen? Not that I don't get pissed off when politicians don't do what they said they would, either flat-out NOT doing it or just never seeming to make the huge change they intended, but...they're politicians. They make huge promises they can't or won't keep. Don't we kind of know that going in?

I did believe all the gay equality stuff, though.

[mutive.livejournal.com]

Evita is just awesome. I'm convinced that Andrew Lloyd Webber went downhill after Tim Rice left. Tim Rice is just an awesome lyricist...

But, yeah, Evita is just the best Broadway musical ever. So clever...I really wish there were musicals that were just, you know, smart. That I got more out of each time I attempted to digest their lyrics. But I digress...

And yeah, I do expect politicians to give in. It's what happens. It's sad, but you can't promise to change the world and suddenly do it. This is ridiculous. But I agree that it would be nice to see Obama take a stand. Particularly considering that he's probably gone come November, anyway, thanks to the economy. He might as well make a big deal out of something. And the hemming and hawing hurts him every bit as much as would saying "Go, judge, go!"

[glitterberrys.livejournal.com]

Tim Rice is great at what he does.

It's funny, a while back i was talking to some friends from my early theatre geek days and one of them asked what our top 5 musicals were now. Mine hadn't changed, to their amusement (for the record: Les Miserables, which was my first ever obsession, Evita, Sunset Boulevard, Ragtime and Side Show, which is really a sentimental pick; it really wasn't very good all things considered, though brilliantly cast), but really...there haven't been THAT many amazing new musicals in a long time. I've never seen Wicked, so I may be missing out there. I'm hoping to see Next to Normal soonish, but...130+ bucks for a seat is just insane. (I unfortunately have ridiculous vertigo...tried sitting in the balcony at Avenue Q...didn't work out...never again). Wait, weren't we talking about politics? ;)

Honestly, the back and forth not wanting to offend anyone makes him seem like a weasel in my eyes, the kind of person who'll say anything to get votes. Which...probably true of all of them, but still. I don't know if it's fair that I hold against him the whole MESSIAH OF HOPE!!!! image when a lot of that seemed to come from his supporters than from his people. But maybe it's a chicken and egg thing. I could never work in politics. I think I would spend a lot of time beating my head against solid objects.

[glitterberrys.livejournal.com]

BTW, adding you. I need more nerdy peeps on my flist ;)

[mutive.livejournal.com]

Heh, works for me. One can never know too many nerds. ;)

[velessa.livejournal.com]

I'm not one of them. It astounds me that people really honestly thought he was going to fix all the country's problems in the first three months or something, which is about how long they gave him before they started bitching about things still being crappy. He's not a fucking wizard, people!

Besides, he has to fight an uphill battle against every conservitard politican out there since they have absolutely no intention of working with him on anything and are happy to just cover their ears and scream NO NO NO!!