EXACTLY

Aug. 6th, 2010 03:01 pm
velessa: (Batman - Joker clapping)
[personal profile] velessa
Borrowed from [livejournal.com profile] ajslj:

In 1787, the majority of people in this country thought African Americans were worth only three fifths of a human being. In 1887, the majority of people in this country thought Interracial Marriage was an abomination. In 2008, the majority of Californians thought marriage should only be between a man and a woman. Just because the majority of people in this country agree with you doesn't mean that you are right, it just means that a lot of people are wrong.

Date: 2010-08-07 12:55 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] urox.livejournal.com
Oh, there are still people complaining about interracial marriage. Trust me on that one.

And yes, the people trying to convince the country *did* fall down. I don't remember hearing *one single* anti-prop 8 commercial talking about two people *loving* each other.

And while I'm typing, it annoyed the *hell* out of me when some interracial people were pro-prop 8. Especially so since I'm bi-racial and they claimed to speak for all interracial people.

Date: 2010-08-07 01:00 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] velessa.livejournal.com
I saw and heard commercials and protests against it, but they were definitely overwhelmed the tidal wave of ads for it. But they didn't stand much of a chance with all the Mormon church money funding the "for" campaign and making it the most expensive one ever.

Date: 2010-08-07 01:21 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] randyandrews.livejournal.com
The Mormon and catholic churches were both involved in that fight and they both had every right to be.

Date: 2010-08-07 04:03 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] velessa.livejournal.com
So what exactly does separation of church and state mean to you? Individuals are allowed to contribute their funds as they see fit, entire religious organizations are prohibited from involvement in legislation. This particular one was a California matter that should have only involved us Californians, not money being poured in from religious groups in other states.

Date: 2010-08-07 04:18 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] randyandrews.livejournal.com
Ummm.. No, there was no law against it, therefore they had every right to be there. The churches themselves did not get involved in the electoral process, they just spent money on ads, and people. This is something political parties do all the time, despite the fact that they are private entities. Private entities have the right to spend money on whatever they choose, as long as they aren't doing anything illegal. You don't like the fact that the Catholic and LDS church's can spend money in your state on ad campaign's, get the laws changed. But while you are at it, make sure that the Republican National Convention and the Democratic National Convention are also banned from spending money there too. After all, these are all private entities.

Date: 2010-08-07 04:30 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] velessa.livejournal.com
Well, I admit I don't like how campaigns are run in this country, period; it seems to boil down to whoever has the most money and can brainwash the most people with their ads wins. Because as you pointed out, most of the population are idiots.

Date: 2010-08-07 04:34 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] randyandrews.livejournal.com
Ahh, something else to agree on.

Date: 2010-08-07 02:41 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] mutive.livejournal.com
Although I do find it interesting that many people blame Obama for it even passing...

Essentially, he mobilized blacks and hispanics to get out and vote, which are two groups that have higher than average numbers of people who were anti-prop 8.

I find it a very interesting juxtaposition, personally. Ah, sleeping with the enemy...

Date: 2010-08-07 04:04 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] velessa.livejournal.com
I know, I find that mind boggling and disgusting...how could minority groups who've been through this crap choose to oppress yet another minority??

Date: 2010-08-07 04:48 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] mutive.livejournal.com
People will often oppose anyone or anything that isn't them. I honestly don't get the big fuss over gay rights on the "take them away" side. Who cares? (I honestly don't.) But people are strange.

Date: 2010-08-08 02:27 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] glitterberrys.livejournal.com
Because they don't feel the parallel applies to them. After all, they didn't choose to be an ethnic minority, nor could they do anything to change it.

...granted, I didn't choose to be gay and don't think I could convert if I wanted to, but plenty of people think it's that easy. Even if they don't think it's technically a choice, you don't have to live...in a gay way? Ugh, I don't know how to express the concept, that, like, you can just be alone and celibate for your lifetime and not Be Gay, whereas short of Michael Jackson-esque surgery, they're stuck with the skin they're in.

At least, that seems to be the most common opinion I've heard voiced.

Doesn't make it any less stupid, though.

Date: 2010-08-08 05:57 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] velessa.livejournal.com
Right, that worked really well for the Catholic priests!

I hate stupid people.

Date: 2010-08-07 04:23 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] randyandrews.livejournal.com
brilliant comment. I hadn't read that side of the argument. Obama is on a slippery slope with this one. It will be interesting to see what he makes of it. (If anything).

Date: 2010-08-07 04:49 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] mutive.livejournal.com
Yeah, I'm quite curious as well. My guess is that he will try to avoid saying anything to avoid upsetting one side. And likely, in the process, upset all. But we will see.

Date: 2010-08-08 02:34 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] glitterberrys.livejournal.com
Considering his early campaigns had a lot of "gay marriage is awesome, I'm all for it," and now he's saying "wait, no, as a Christian I'm against it, but civil unions are just as good, right?", I'm expecting a whole lot of pants-crapping on both sides. Me, I'm just pissed at myself for getting suckered into voting for the guy. Not that I think he's the Worst President Ever, and I still think he's better than the alternative...but had I known then what I know now, I would've written someone in or something.

Date: 2010-08-08 03:36 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] mutive.livejournal.com
Hmmm...yes. I wonder much at Obama. He isn't fortunate, this is for sure. He is trapped in a severe recession that is not his fault (nor, probably, his predecesor's), and therefore unpopular.

I can understand his hesitancy to become engaged in a cultural war. That said, considering that his presidency is likely over if the economy does not recover come 2012 (which seems unlikely), he might as well go down being for something. Might as well throw his weight behind this, seeing as this is where his tendencies seem to lie, anyway. Although, then again, maybe this is why I am not in politics.

Date: 2010-08-08 03:59 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] glitterberrys.livejournal.com
Despite having my own problems with this guy, I gotta say I find it weird that people expected him to make EVERY PROBLEM IN THE WORLD go away overnight.

And my fellow liberals seem to be pissed that he's not doing that, but they don't blink about the gay marriage flip-flop. I don't understand politics at all, or how people relate to politics and politicians.

Date: 2010-08-08 04:13 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] mutive.livejournal.com
I agree completely. I always loved the Evita line "How can one person like me, say,/Alter the time-honored way the game is played?...So what are my chances of honest advances?/I'd say low/Better to win by admitting my sin/Than to lose with a halo...But first tell me who'd be delighted/If I said I'd take on the world's greatest problems/From war to pollution, no hope of solution/Even if I lived for one hundred years"

Unfortunately, Obama really did campaign on the whole "I will take on all the problems!" but then, of course, cannot. And so he is blamed for this, despite that no one could. Oh, the art of the possible...

Can you tell that I love Evita?

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From: [identity profile] glitterberrys.livejournal.com - Date: 2010-08-08 04:39 am (UTC) - Expand

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From: [identity profile] mutive.livejournal.com - Date: 2010-08-08 04:42 am (UTC) - Expand

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From: [identity profile] glitterberrys.livejournal.com - Date: 2010-08-08 04:54 am (UTC) - Expand

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From: [identity profile] mutive.livejournal.com - Date: 2010-08-08 11:03 pm (UTC) - Expand

Date: 2010-08-08 05:55 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] velessa.livejournal.com
I'm not one of them. It astounds me that people really honestly thought he was going to fix all the country's problems in the first three months or something, which is about how long they gave him before they started bitching about things still being crappy. He's not a fucking wizard, people!

Besides, he has to fight an uphill battle against every conservitard politican out there since they have absolutely no intention of working with him on anything and are happy to just cover their ears and scream NO NO NO!!

Date: 2010-08-07 01:09 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] randyandrews.livejournal.com
Yes I know some people still complain. But it's mainstream for interracial marriages to happen.

Date: 2010-08-07 04:08 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] velessa.livejournal.com
And soon that will be the case for same sex marriage; it's already happening in other states and countries and society isn't collapsing on its face. So why all the resistance? It's going to happen whether you like it or not, just like integration and interracial marriage and every other fight for equal rights in history. People can either get with the times and get on board with progress or choose to continue living in the dark ages of their Leave it to Beaver fantasy worlds.

Date: 2010-08-07 04:21 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] randyandrews.livejournal.com
I personally don't care if the gays do get married. I made a whole big other point on an earlier entry by velessa that marriage should be a contract between 2 people. If they want a ceremony, thats up to them. But there is no need for anyone in the government to be involved in it. As long as 2 people (or more really, we're all adults here) can come to some sort of agreement that they are going to live together, and not sleep with anyone else but their partner(s) they are living with, that's fine by me.

Date: 2010-08-07 04:28 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] velessa.livejournal.com
I'm not referring to you personally, just people in general. I think it's pretty clear that it will happen sooner or later, but people still insist on digging in their heels and and screaming and crying because they fear change.

Date: 2010-08-07 04:34 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] randyandrews.livejournal.com
I don't think that it is clear. In fact I think that there are going to be some serious problems when and if it does happen. But I don't think you will ever get enough people to agree with it to get it passed in the first place. The congress critters we have up there like their jobs too much for that.

But I could be wrong. It's been known to happen once or twice. ;-)

Date: 2010-08-07 05:01 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] velessa.livejournal.com
That's another thing that bugs me about politics, politicians just pandering to voters rather than doing the right thing because all they care about is keeping their comfy jobs. =P

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